US Luxury Fashion – Domestic Performance & the Pivot
to China for Growth – 29 September 2021
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Specialist:
Title:
Moderator: Nyree Hinton (NH), Third Bridge Sector Analyst
Vincent Ottomanelli (VO)
Former CEO & Regional Director, USA at Salvatore Ferragamo SpA
Agenda:
1. Physical retail shopping experience trends and data tracking
2. Competitive landscape – Tapestry (NYSE: TPR), Capri Holding (NYSE: CPRI), Canada Goose (TSE:
GOOS) and Ralph Lauren (NYSE: RL)
3. Potential opportunities for regional expansion in menswear
4. Brand preservation challenges amid changing consumer behaviours
5. D2C growth and distribution outlook
Contents
Q: Could you give us an overview of luxury fashion and how you would segment out the key different price
points or tiers of this industry and how that has impacted consumer behaviour?
Q: What are your thoughts on some of these better brands or legacy brands such as Michael Kors, Ralph
Lauren and Tapestry trying for China or Asia for that growth that they don’t have within the US? Why are
some of these brands struggling here or have struggled domestically and are focusing on Asia as holding or
sustaining sales? What do you think is causing these dynamics?
Q: How are you assessing this downfall of some of these department stores or lack of volume in the
wholesale channel, and do you think some of these luxury players were a little bit slow to react to this?
Department stores have been closing and malls have had less traffic. When it comes to an e-commerce and
building out that alternative distribution, could you discuss some of the reluctancy of some of these big
players who do have a capital to build out e-commerce platforms more quickly, that do so?
3
4
5
Q: What is the tier 1 group of companies such as Hermes, Gucci and Balenciaga doing to attract the younger
consumer where you have the mass brands struggling a bit to really stay connected with this whole trend of
athleisure and others? Could you discuss that strategy of trying to reconnect with the young consumer as a
legacy brand?
Q: Could you discuss the key trends and category assortments? What’s driving growth and throughout your
experience globally, how does that differ from being selective about your product assortments in Asia?
6
6
Q: What is the opportunity in athleisure and more of that functional or performance area? Is that an
opportunity for some of these mass channel brands or Balenciaga or Gucci to expand into, given how fast the
category is growing broad-based? What are your thoughts on the young consumer and that push or
transition into more of this hybrid approach?
7
Q: Could you discuss any challenges around sourcing? Sustainability is a big issue these days. How are you
thinking about that consumer perception down the supply chain?
7
Q: Could you discuss the preferences in category assortments and fabrics in Asia? Is it handbags that are
also driving growth in that region? How are you thinking about selectiveness outside of the US and what that
8
consumer is thinking about?
Q: Is there opportunity on the menswear in Asia as well, given that they’re much more affluent? Have you
noticed men are much more shoppers in Asia vs the US where they barely shop at all to a certain extent?
How are you assessing the gender dynamics and does that present an opportunity that’s probably untapped
or unrealised?
Q: Could you discuss the transparency of data between the manufacturers and the retailers and wholesalers
who are selling this product in the US, whether it’s Nordstrom? How are brands gaining more data on the
consumer in purchasing patterns, to better market their products or just plan inventory? How are those
conversations with some of those wholesalers?
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Q: Could you speak to why it makes sense to split off the e-commerce part from bricks-and-mortar retail? It
seems like there could be misalignment of priorities between businesses within the same corporation, and
then what’s the incentive? What is that dynamic with an opportunity like this marketplace that Saks Fifth is
offering?
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Q: How much control do brands have over pricing in these types of environments? How do you as a brand
think about your pricing dynamic when you have so many different outlets that you have to manage, where
your consumer, in a sense, has access and insights to each of those channels?
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Q: Why do you think some brands such as Michael Kors, Ralph Lauren and Tommy Hilfiger are falling out of
favour as a legacy brand with the young consumer? Could you speak about preserving your brand and
staying relevant while also being able to command a price premium, being able to be popular? How do you
do both?
11
Q: What are you tracking in Q4 2021 and into 2022? What do you think will be critical to success in the
coming months or years?
12
US Luxury Fashion – Domestic Performance & the Pivot
to China for Growth
Transcription begins at 00:00:03 of the recorded material
NH: Welcome to Third Bridge Forum’s Interview entitled US Luxury Fashion – Domestic Performance & the
Pivot to China for Growth. I am Nyree Hinton and I will facilitating today’s Interview with Mr Vincent
Ottomanelli, former CEO and Regional Director, USA at Salvatore Ferragamo.
Vincent, before we get started with today’s Interview, please state I agree or I disagree to the following
statement: You understand the definition of material non-public information and agree not to disclose any
such information, or any information which is confidential, during this Interview.
VO: I agree.
NH: Can you start by giving the audience an introduction of your background and various roles that you’ve
held in the industry?
VO: Very nice to meet you all. My name is Vincent Ottomanelli. I’m currently the Chief Commercial Officer
and Financial Officer for Lafayette 148 Inc. It’s a USA-based luxury women’s ready-wear company. I’ve been
here a little over two years. Prior to Lafayette 148, I worked at Salavatore Ferragamo USA, responsible for the
American region. I was at Salvatore Ferragamo for almost 15 years, again, as the Chief Executive Officer,
mainly in the United States, Hawaii, all of Canada and central and South America. I started my career early.
I’m a CPA, worked with Deloitte & Touche. I’m certified in New York City, and I still maintain my licence and
the reason why I act as the Chief Financial Officer here even in my current role. That’s who I am. I’ve been in
the retail industry for the majority of my career and I’m looking forward to this conversation today.
[00:02:02]
Q: Could you give us an overview of luxury fashion and how you would segment out the key different price
points or tiers of this industry and how that has impacted consumer behaviour?
VO: When I think of luxury and across all categories in my current role, we focus mostly on women’s ready-to-
wear, which is the dominant piece of what we sell. Certainly, accessories and leather accessories and bijoux
and fragrances are all important. In terms of price point, definitely when I think of luxury, there’s good better
and best, if you will. Some of the brands that I would consider true luxury, and the European companies, I
think, probably do it the best, companies that include Hermes, Dior, Gucci, Celine, Balenciaga, Salvatore
Ferragamo, Prada, I think are the very best. Each of those companies have their niche. Dior, I didn’t mention
Chanel, Chanel of course, and Chanel probably doing true lifestyle brands, but probably have more of a
distribution or a product category around women’s ready-to-wear. Definitely an accessory business which is
significant and then jewellery and fragrances. Beneath there, I think are companies that, they’re more mass, if
you will, and companies like Michael Kors, and Tory Burch, and even Polo Ralph Lauren or Ralph Lauren,
Tommy Hilfiger, Calvin Klein, make great product, great designer product, but I think they’re just a niche
beneath them. All of these companies I think are pretty global. Our company, Lafayette 148, most of our
distribution is throughout North America and we have a nice penetration into China as well and a little bit in
Europe.
Luxury is changing, the way the consumer is shopping is changing. Pre-pandemic, post-pandemic, there has
been somewhat of a casualisation that has been occurring. Each of the brands that I think still still stay true to
Private and confidential 3
what made them great and what they’re known for, but companies like Balenciaga and Gucci have done
extremely well in more casual products or more definitely leather accessories. Quite honestly sneakers, or a
sneaker or a more casual shoe has been dominant and a handbag as well. It’s a very interesting period. I think,
from a market perspective, market background, each of these companies are definitely defining their
distribution. Retail has always been significant for them but also including e-commerce is very important and
I think a combination of each. Then, here in America, for sure, globally as well, but here in America, the major
department stores are still a significant piece of the distribution. There are still many footsteps and
marketplaces that are deriving as a result of that, and they’re still very important. I think the very best luxury
brands are doing a fair amount of distribution through all channels, focusing on their directly operated stores
and e-commerce and definitely the pre-eminent department stores partners are significant as well.
NH: Could you classify what you would consider as not really fulfilling their true potential in this luxury
market? Because I think you said there’s good, there’s better and then there’s bad. Which companies would
you clarify as being bad?
VO: Good, better and best. I didn’t say bad. Good better and best, right? I was saying absolutely the very best.
I know for our company, we definitely spent a fair amount of time trying to define who our true peer set is.
Companies that we compete against that I would define as best is companies like Brunello Cucinelli, Loro
Piana, even Max Mara and Akris Punto, that are significant ready-to-wear companies. I think that the ones
that are operating the best also, have a global appearance, and definitely a significant perception, a brand
perception from a global standpoint. That customer has, clearly, the very best luxury brands travel, I’m sorry,
the very best luxury brands, their customers are travelling or want to see that the brands that are existing in
the major markets around the world. I do think that the French companies, Hermes and Dior and Chanel are
probably the very best, again. I think better, good or better would fall to the category like Tory Burch, and
Michael Kors and Ralph Lauren, Tommy Hilfiger. Interesting, Tommy Hilfiger has significant distribution in
Asia and Europe and probably has been performing better even there than domestically in the states where
they have originated. I don’t know if that answers your question, Nyree, but that’s how I see it.
[00:08:32]
Q: What are your thoughts on some of these better brands or legacy brands such as Michael Kors, Ralph
Lauren and Tapestry trying for China or Asia for that growth that they don’t have within the US? Why are
some of these brands struggling here or have struggled domestically and are focusing on Asia as holding or
sustaining sales? What do you think is causing these dynamics?
VO: I will tell you for, I would say even the last 10 years, the Chinese consumer, the Asian consumer is
definitely a very affluent luxury consumer. It’s very important. I know that those consumers look to the
Americas, look to see the penetration here, and then they’ve always traditionally preferred shopping and
purchasing in the country of origin. It’s always nice if you’re in Paris buying from the Parisian brands or you’re
in Europe, in Italy buying from the Italian brands. I think that as that luxury consumer has grown, I think
brands that have distribution throughout China was significant, so they could get it their home land as well. I
do think that brands like Calvin Klein and Tommy Hilfiger and the Tapestry Group have seen great
opportunity and great opportunity to grow their businesses throughout. Even us, we’re a much smaller
company, Lafayette 148, but we’ve got 16 stores in the major cities that we’ve identified in China. They’re
affluent customers. They wardrobe, so they tend to buy, at least what we’ve been experiencing, not only a
single item but if they like the brand, they will wardrobe and buy, we focus and measure our units per
transaction. We find that China consumers or the Asian consumer is buying multiple units, especially if they
are appreciating the brand. I think that that’s probably a significant reason why brands within the Tapestry
Group or Hilfiger or Calvin Klein, are also focused on the China market.
As far as the United States, some of them have not done as well. I think that there’s a tremendous amount of
competition here in the states, globally as well but definitely in the United States. In the states, even my old
company, Salvatore Ferragomo, a large part of the distribution was driven through department store partners,
and some of the biggest ones or the best ones like Saks, Neiman’s, Nordstrom’s and Bloomingdale’s. That
channel of distribution has had their issues and in many instances it’s contracted to some degree. You may
Private and confidential 4
have lost some revenue or you have needed to adjust and change and take maybe more control of your
distribution by going direct and going e-commerce. That might have impacted your revenue here domestically
in the Americas and so there was further opportunity elsewhere outside of this country, either throughout Asia
or in Europe. That’s how I see it.
[00:12:14]
Q: How are you assessing this downfall of some of these department stores or lack of volume in the wholesale
channel, and do you think some of these luxury players were a little bit slow to react to this? Department
stores have been closing and malls have had less traffic. When it comes to an e-commerce and building out
that alternative distribution, could you discuss some of the reluctancy of some of these big players who do
have a capital to build out e-commerce platforms more quickly, that do so?
VO: It’s a great point, Nyree. I think for sure and I know some of the companies or the one company that I
worked for, for sure was slow to react. I guess there’s great history and great business from many years that
was done with the major department store businesses and it was a typical wholesale model. I think it took, to
change and to move and adjust from that, companies needed to measure, alright there’s a capital investment
that would be required. You have to deal with landlords, leases that could be onerous, maybe long-term but
you needed to measure that and now, fast forward, the department store businesses have been suffering and
were probably, for sure, over-stored. Why you’ve seen some contraction. We’ve had bankruptcies and that’s
continuing. Now, today, even in the departments, the model has changed where, for sure, the very best luxury
brands have now a concession model as opposed to a direct wholesale distribution where they’re paying,
basically a percentage of their sales or a form of rent to exist in those department stores.
I know how my company is reacting for sure. We definitely know that we need to be a bit diversified or have an
omnichannel approach. We can’t afford to be reliant on any one channel but for sure the wholesale channel.
Living through the pandemic was very challenging for all of us but it’s very hard to absorb when you’re
manufacturing months in advance based on orders that were placed and then all of that is getting cancelled.
Now you’re left with the goods and you utilised your cash to manufacture them, and now you need to figure
how you’re going to liquidate those items. That channel is quite risky as well. I think yours is a fair point, but
some of the brands might for sure have been slow to react. They could have seen it maybe a while ago and for
sure, there have been too department stores in this country. Then, from a brand perspective, you should be
able to stand on your own. You should be able to directly operate and take control of your distribution,
whether through your own online or your own retail. At my company, we’d even define, we’d have, across the
country, stylists, if you will, who are personal stylists for their brand of customers and that’s very interesting
for us because we’re able to sell without having to build a retail store, and it’s a commission-based
environment with some of the best sellers, if you will, but it’s direct. I’m not dealing through wholesale but it’s
retail first.
I think that’s the right way. I think a lot of companies need to rebalance and take control of their distribution
and we, for sure, are only going to exist in the best markets, in the best stores, with our wholesale partners,
where we see appropriate. We’re going to be more focused on the collections that we distributed to the
department store partners so that the collection is always very representative of the brand and how we want
the collection to look on their floors. If we don’t look or if we have not bought correctly, we would rather not be
there and we’d rather do it ourselves. The department store business is still very important for us. We like, I
think, a true measure to see how your brand is performing, is when you’re in an environment where you’re
competing with all the great brands adjacent to each other and the customer who is now shopping has lots of
choices. If they select you, it’s a true measurement on how your brand is performing as opposed to when a
customer comes into one of our stores or a trial website. They’re only looking at Lafayette or at Ferragamo or
whichever brand that have to be shopping. You’ve already got them. If they come into your store you should
win and you should be able to get that lever. I think the distribution within the department stores is still very
important. I think it’s a bit challenging to see how you might be able to grow and I think each of us needs to
take a look at alternatives and other distribution opportunities maximise our businesses.
Private and confidential 5
[00:18:00]
Q: What is the tier 1 group of companies such as Hermes, Gucci and Balenciaga doing to attract the younger
consumer where you have the mass brands struggling a bit to really stay connected with this whole trend of
athleisure and others? Could you discuss that strategy of trying to reconnect with the young consumer as a
legacy brand?
VO: A few things, for sure, and I think it’s always the case, it has always been the case that it begins with a
product. You need to have the product first, but then, with the younger consumer, I think that how you’re
going to communicate with them, get them excited and so, each of the brands, the very best, have had to shift
and this should not be a surprise, have had to shift their marketing efforts and so, what does the younger
consumer look for? Where do they get their information? We’ve all had to shift to more digital, Instagram
marketing communication and with the correct influencers, if you will.
It’s no longer print advertising. Print is still, to some degree, important. My company still generates a
wonderful book or a catalogue with our most fashionable items. We mail some of it but we digitally transmit it
and then Instagram and Facebook and influencers are very important for us, and how we showcase our
product and where our customers or our influencers, where they travel, where they shop, to create a cool
factor, if you will. I think that’s what the very best brands like Balenciaga has wonderful product. It is very
fashion forward and I think they’re putting their product on awesome influencers and they’re spending a fair
amount of their marketing investment in digital activities. I think that’s what’s very important for the younger
consumer.
As well, what I see here specifically in America, some of the best retail properties throughout the United
States, and that could be either on street locations or in some of the best shopping malls, each of the very best
brands, for sure, Hermes, Balenciaga, Gucci, I didn’t mention Louis Vuitton, but are gobbling up larger pieces
of real estate and in some instances are doubling down. I think they are finding which are the best locations.
I’m talking about markets like Houston, the very popular mall is the Houston Galleria that is a very hot market
right now downtown in Dallas. Highland Park Village, some of these brands are taking bigger spaces and
creating that kind of theatre or moment inside of the stores. They’re directly operated stores that I think are
driving traffic and the younger consumer to there places of business. Again, I think it’s product and I think it’s
the right influencers and for sure, digital and a social media marketing campaign is very important with the
right mix of your directly operated stores in the very best markets. That’s what the best brands are doing.
[00:21:58]
Q: Could you discuss the key trends and category assortments? What’s driving growth and throughout your
experience globally, how does that differ from being selective about your product assortments in Asia?
VO: What we’ve been experiencing, what I’m seeing and that what all of my colleagues are talking about
whether it’s within department stores or even with the landlords and property owners, the very best brands in
terms of product categories, accessories, the leather accessories, whether it’s shoes or handbags, small leather
goods, belts, and definitely luxury jewellery and watches, are probably the categories that are performing the
best. I know at my company, ready-to-wear, especially women’s ready-to-wear, was a little bit slower but now,
as folks are returning back to work or want to get out and about now because everyone is out and about right
now or more comfortable as we feel more safe to do so, folks want to get dressed up. The last, I would say,
three months, have been quite significant for ready to wear businesses and tailored clothing, especially
tailored clothing. For us, even a company like Lafayette which is a bit of a more mature customer and for sure
we dress a professional businesswoman, an international traveller, we’ve had to do some casualisation but I
think that we are wardrobing out our women. She wants colour, she wants special pieces, she wants something
that’s very representative of the brand and I think that’s what the brands have needed to do.
For sure, again, just to restate, the accessories business has been extremely strong. Companies like Gucci and
Balenciaga and Prada and Louis Vuitton, for sure, have really been driving their casual shoe business, their
Private and confidential 6
sneaker business, their handbag business has been quite strong, and jewellery and accessories. Now, I think
what’s following up is the ready-to-wear businesses are starting to get strong and more maybe towards, I know
for us, we do suiting but we do a lot of casual pieces. I think Brunello Cucinelli and Max Mara, a lot of really
cool outerwear and cashmeres and a little bit loose fitting clothing but very special pieces. I think that’s what
brands are focused on in terms of product. Even our company, we’re known for our ready-to-wear, but the
accessory component of our business, we want to outfit her, so we’ve developed footwear, we’ve got our
handbag and a lot of fashion jewellery have been important components and we see that as growth potential.
[00:25:19]
Q: What is the opportunity in athleisure and more of that functional or performance area? Is that an
opportunity for some of these mass channel brands or Balenciaga or Gucci to expand into, given how fast the
category is growing broad-based? What are your thoughts on the young consumer and that push or transition
into more of this hybrid approach?
VO: I think it’s interesting and I think the athleisure for Balenciaga or Gucci, Prada, I think they do a better
job focusing on a fair amount of casualisation, maybe again, sneakers, they all have sneakers in categories. I
don’t know, is there an opportunity for them to develop, I will tell you, people, we’re back to work pretty much
every day here in our offices, and I’m looking around and folks, for sure, are dressed more casual. There are a
lot more sneakers being worn and denim is a big category as well, and so more comfortable clothing, but I
don’t know that it’s necessarily… I think the fashion is important but I think the technical products or like
what Lululemon would be known for or Under Armour or Nike, I’m not so sure. I think some of the luxury
brands could do a collaboration with those companies and we’ve seen some of that. In fact, we’ve seen
companies like On, the sneaker company, really start getting into more ready-to-wear components of their
business, not only for training or working out, but something that you can wear out and about or even to work.
I do believe the very best ready-to-wear companies and branded companies could do collaborations and there
could be an opportunity in that. I think they really need to focus on their core categories and drive those
businesses, maybe with a bit of a flair towards casualisation as the customer and the consumer maybe is
adjusting the way she dresses or he dresses. I look forward to learn from that as well, to see which direction. I
know for a company like Lafayette 148, we’re not as focused on athleisure. We’re more focused on great fabrics
and great materials, wonderful cashmeres and maybe we change the product category we’re doing a few more,
maybe, knitwear is an important category for us, and maybe a bit looser dresses and some fitted items as well
and ponchos. To address how we see her coming to work today, vs going directly athleisure which we wouldn’t
be sure would work for us. I think every brand has to define it for themselves. Does that make sense?
[00:28:46]
Q: Could you discuss any challenges around sourcing? Sustainability is a big issue these days. How are you
thinking about that consumer perception down the supply chain?
VO: That’s a great comment. I will tell you, fortunately, for us, we haven’t been as impacted but the supply
chain and where we source, and we source our fabrics and materials from, I would say some of the best mill
workers in the world. We look for the best fabrics and we try to bring them in and for sure, sustainability is
important for us and so we want to know that it’s being manufactured and produced in the right locations, the
right factories. For sure, we love great leathers, great cashmeres, wools, silks and we haven’t been as impacted,
but things are a little bit slower than maybe we would like. I think that that’s an important aspect on how
collections are going to be created and developed and what you can offer for each collection, where you’re
showing your product categories.
I think it’s important for the consumer. In the end, she’s going to want great product. She’s going to want to
know that it was made appropriately and fairly and extremely well made. I know at my company we win when
we are showing great craftsmanship, great materials, great ornaments, just great fashionable items
Private and confidential 7
manufactured well. Lafayette, we own our factory. We don’t own our mill workers so we’re sourcing our fabrics
but they’re made in our factory. I think that’s very important to our consumer so the knows that we are really
following the whole distribution, the manufacturing channel, and to the greatest degree possible, we’re
vertically integrated. I think that’s important for the end consumer.
[00:31:19]
Q: Could you discuss the preferences in category assortments and fabrics in Asia? Is it handbags that are also
driving growth in that region? How are you thinking about selectiveness outside of the US and what that
consumer is thinking about?
VO: It’s a fair point. I will tell you, for us, and I think that for the Asian consumer, brands are very important
for them. When they like a brand, we’ve experienced and it’s been my experience, where they wardrobe. They
like to buy the whole look, the pant, the blouse, the jacket, the hat, I think they buy the whole look. We’ve seen
our average order value for our Asian consumers a bit higher than here domestically in the states and directly
related to the units per transaction. That consumer is buying more. When they like the brand, they like to
wardrobe and outfit. We’ve seen opportunity in handbags as a result of that.
We are, Lafayette 148, 90% of our business is done on ready-to-wear, but those other smaller categories for us,
we see an opportunity for us to grow. We call it non-apparel, but it really is the accessories. For the Asian
consumer, that’s an opportunity. It’s an opportunity for our business regardless of which country, but
definitely for the Asian consumer because if she likes the brand, she will absolutely look to buy the footwear,
the handbag, the belt, the wallet, the purse, from our brand. I think that’s very important and that’s an
opportunity. The fragrances, the sunglasses, so proper product extensions for what a brand is known for
absolutely should be developed and definitely, it’s a business opportunity and for sure, in Asia as well.
[00:33:39]
Q: Is there opportunity on the menswear in Asia as well, given that they’re much more affluent? Have you
noticed men are much more shoppers in Asia vs the US where they barely shop at all to a certain extent? How
are you assessing the gender dynamics and does that present an opportunity that’s probably untapped or
unrealised?
VO: That’s a great point. At my current company, we only focus on one gender. It’s only women at the
moment but at Ferragamo, during my time there, absolutely, I would say, more so than the Americas, you’re
right. The man consumer is definitely more and more interested in what they wear and really putting a look
together. I know in my past, it was a major volume driver for the men’s division, and the men’s division for
sure in ready-to-wear was growing even faster than women’s. I think that’s absolutely true for the Asian
consumer who has got more of a focus on fashion, and putting the look together and really, the look and the
clothing they wear was really an extension of their personality, domestically here in America at times.
I think it’s changing in America also, but domestically in America, I think a lot of men tend to body cover, and
aren’t so focused on the clothing that they’re wearing as an extension of their personality, but even that’s
changing here. I think people like to get dressed up. I think they’d like to put their look together, and I think
it’s important that either the materials or the outfit that their putting together is quite important. I think it’s a
global opportunity for men’s as well, and it’s more and more men. There was a time, and this is maybe years
ago, especially if you travel, and you went on an aircraft, the American would dress very often in very casual
clothing and very comfortable, whereas the European would really get dressed up and you would see them in a
sport jacket, sometimes in a shirt and tie. I think that overall that men are more conscious on what they’re
wearing and their outfitting and their styling, if you will. It’s very important in Asia, but I think it’s even an
opportunity on the global perspective, as men are getting dressed up vs their women counterparts.
Private and confidential 8
[00:36:36]
Q: Could you discuss the transparency of data between the manufacturers and the retailers and wholesalers
who are selling this product in the US, whether it’s Nordstrom? How are brands gaining more data on the
consumer in purchasing patterns, to better market their products or just plan inventory? How are those
conversations with some of those wholesalers?
VO: It has been my experience, it’s a wonderful point, the department stores and the relationship as far as
data sharing, has definitely grown and it has been more transparent. We’ve had a really good sharing of
information on how the customer is shopping our brand, not necessarily on peer set. We’ll learn about our
peer sets but we get a nice, I mean, I’m finding more and more sharing of information on the types of
products, the colours and the other brands that may be being shopped in our category. I think it’s to
everyone’s best interest and it’s a lot of information. If I was a department store, I want to share with my
vendor community, what’s working, what my customers are buying, and so that you can then develop your
collection accordingly and to maximise your business. I think that that’s been healthy.
Then I would say, I think it’s important for this audience, is, it has been a trend, but the department stores, for
sure, at each of them, but I would say Saks Fifth Avenue is being a leader at this and Bloomingdale’s a little bit,
is coming up with marketplaces, if you will. I know it’s Saks Fifth Avenue, it’s public knowledge, they split off
their brick-and-mortar retail stores vs their e-commerce business. It’s still under the same company, still
Hudson Bay, but it has allowed their management really to develop their e-commerce. They’re going to be
investing more in e-commerce. They’ve taken some equity investment to focus on their e-commerce and
they’re coming up with a marketplace to compete against the pure players out there, like Net-a-Porter, or
Moda Operandi, and Saks is a great brand, for example.
It’s in line with the sharing of data where they propose you can host your brand on their website and it’s more
of a concession model where you as the vendor will receive the retail revenue and have to pay a percentage of
that retail revenue and that’s how Saks would be compensated. I think that that’s an interesting model. When
you have that, you have more access to the data or how the customer is shopping because it’s retail to you, and
you’re being hosted on their website. I think that’s a very interesting formula. I think it’s very smart on Sak’s
part and the other department stores. I think they will focus more on pure, on market share environments, or
market place environments and I see more and more of that and it’s very interesting. A company like Saks
whose brand is so strong, probably can do a really good job from a global perspective, getting their
marketplace and distributing from a global perspective. Sharing of the data has been good.
[00:40:33]
Q: Could you speak to why it makes sense to split off the e-commerce part from bricks-and-mortar retail? It
seems like there could be misalignment of priorities between businesses within the same corporation, and
then what’s the incentive? What is that dynamic with an opportunity like this marketplace that Saks Fifth is
offering?
VO: Here’s the thing, I think the marketplace can be interesting both for the vendor community, brands, and
for the department store. Everyone has got to weigh it themselves. There are different dynamics. For a brand
like us, we have our own retail stores, we have our own e-commerce, we have the stylist programme, I shared
with you, which has been fantastic for us. We buy for our stores, we buy for our e-commerce, we supply for our
stylists, and then we need to, not only an upfront buy, but we fulfil against orders, a fulfilment. We go ahead
and measure our inventory and how much we think we need to maximise our business.
Where it becomes interesting for a brand like ours is, if we agree, if we come to an agreement with a
marketplace environment, we now could fulfil and we could maximise our inventory investment and supply to
various channels and distribute the goods from our distribution centre to wherever it’s needed, whether it’s at
a Saks marketplace or our e-commerce, or directly to our stores. That becomes very interesting. Conversely,
that mean we need to manage the inventory risk. For a Saks or a Bloomingdale’s who is doing a marketplace,
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for them that becomes interesting because they could limit their risk on inventory ownership host, the brands
on their website and then generate revenue when the customer needs it and have the brand shipped directly as
a drop-ship formula. I think that every brand and the departments stores need to measure, and I think you
need to do a little bit of each. For us, what makes the most sense is we would want to wholesale directly, the
typical formula and distribute some inventory, as well as look at an e-commerce marketplace formula.
I think that’s the advantages and the pros and cons of doing a little bit of each, marketplace and whole sale and
really measuring and managing your inventory risk. That’s the reason why I think department stores are
finding that interesting. I don’t want to misspeak. I think for each of the departments, their brick-and-mortar
stores are still important for them. I think they’re diversifying and wherever their customer shops, still we find
our customer and our very best customer like to touch us in various channels of distribution, whether on a
retail store, or online or even in some of the outlets that we have. Hence we want to be able to provide those
environments for our customer, wherever she happens to be or where she wants to shop us. I think the
department stores are doing the same thing. It creates more data at the same time, so we see how our
customers are shopping and we see the kinds of items that she’s selecting from us in each of these channels of
distribution. That’s why I think the data is important for us from a retail perspective and also towards our
manufacturers. Maybe for our design team, I want to get the data and provide the information that our
consumers, how they’re shopping for us, to really provide good intelligence for our design team as they
develop our next collections. Hopefully that makes sense, I know I jumped ahead a little bit.
[00:45:02]
Q: How much control do brands have over pricing in these types of environments? How do you as a brand
think about your pricing dynamic when you have so many different outlets that you have to manage, where
your consumer, in a sense, has access and insights to each of those channels?
VO: Pricing is very paramount and I will tell you, everything is getting more expensive. Freight is getting more
expensive, cost of materials is getting more expensive, labour is getting more expensive, so, as we set our
pricing, for sure, we’ve taken a decision that the quality of our product and what we offer is paramount. Our
customer wants to see, and I think it’s important for the luxury or even in the middle, the good companies as
well, your product is paramount. We want to make sure that we’re offering to our consumers, the very best
design, well-handcrafted with the best materials. As a result of that, what we deliver to the market, we want to
receive and earn. We want to price us where we are offering great value and have the opportunity to generate
decent margins for us as well, fair margins.
We set the pricing and we do have control. We have control, very much, especially if you’re in a marketplace
environment, you would agree with the department store partner if you were to do a marketplace, what the
offering was going to look like, and you set the pricing. In the end, when you’re in a marketplace environment,
you are the retailer. You’re selling at retail. It’s your decision when to go on sale or not, or to participate in a
promotion or not. The same is true when you have a wholesale environment, when you wholesale distribute.
You are selling now and then the retailer does take the decision whether to go on sale or not but you need to
control that. You have to either up front agree which sales you want, which promotions you want to participate
with or not.
I think it’s very important, I know for us, when I’m looking at each of our channels of distribution, whether it’s
in a department store, in one of directly operated stores, our e-commerce, even with our stylists, that our
product, our pricing is remaining consistent, not only in North America but from a global perspective. We
spend a fair amount of time ensuring that our pricing is consistent and honestly, if one of our department
store partners or a speciality store partner store partner that we sell to changes our pricing, we take issue with
that. We need to be consistent. I think it’s very important from a brand perception to our end consumer that
we, the brands set to the pricing and then remain consistent to the greatest degree they can. It needs to be
policed.
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[00:48:22]
Q: Why do you think some brands such as Michael Kors, Ralph Lauren and Tommy Hilfiger are falling out of
favour as a legacy brand with the young consumer? Could you speak about preserving your brand and staying
relevant while also being able to command a price premium, being able to be popular? How do you do both?
VO: Great question. I will tell you, we think about, one of the valuable assets for our brand, for a company,
and I’m going to simplify this a little bit but our ABCs. Our most valuable assets are our associates, the folks
who work here who have the passion for our brand, who develop our products, who work in our retail stores,
develop the relationship with our customers. Our associates, our brand, and our consumers, those are the
most valuable assets, and when you have valuable assets you need to make sure that they’re educated, they’re
informed, you’re investing in them, and then you’re protecting them. If you’re a brand that you distribute to
many speciality stores and many department stores and online and we’re multifaceted, we have multiple
channels of distribution.
If you’re not looking at how your brand is being treated in a particular environment, meaning, if somebody is
promoting you, and then, one of your other department stores is not being promoted so there’s a price gap or
variance, and it happens, that’s a negative impact on your brand. As a consumer, especially in an age now
where everything is digital, everything is available at your fingertips, the consumer sees that you are being
distributed at various price points. You’re losing integrity and that will hurt you and impact you. It will be
really recourse, and one of the only recourses you have, especially if you were wholesale distributed is to take a
decision to rein in that distribution. Reduce what you ship to a particular channel to make sure that you’re
keeping brand integrity and when you keep brand and price integrity, that’s really a win-win situation because
you condition the consumer, if you want Lafayette 148, a particular product that you see, it’s a consistent price
point, whichever channel you see.
The only, I wouldn’t say the exception to that but when we, we’re a seasonal business and we operate with a
certain sell through and the leftover product from a particular season, we take back and we’ve taken a decision
to have a few outlets and then we will liquidate our older, aged material from previous seasons through an
outlet at liquidation pricing. To remove the aged inventory and really focus on the new collection, the current
season collection, policing the pricing is paramount. Companies and maybe legacy companies who haven’t
done a fair job at that, I think that negatively impacts their brand and their brand equity, and I think the
consumer, the consumers are for sure very smart, and again, the information is at their fingertips. Then, take a
decision, I’m not so sure I want to buy from the company or a brand that doesn’t have a great brand equity or
great brand integrity. The competition is a lot, there are a lot of brands out there. There’s a lot for a consumer
to choose from. I think it’s paramount, I don’t know how else to say it. For us, I know that it’s something that,
and at times we’ll find sometimes we’re discounted where we didn’t want to be. Those are discussions that you
need to take up with your distribution partners. It’s managing your brand, it’s paramount.
NH: How does that transition to Asia? Are many of these brands sustainable in their approach of making as
much product as they can, making as much available? Are the consumers looking at that cross-channel pricing
as closely?
VO: Absolutely. Nyree, I will tell you, I find, we find that our very best customers, we have, here in the
northeast, a very successful store on Madison Avenue which is a full-price boutique for us, and we have an
equally successful store at the Americana Manhasset in Long Island, one of the best properties probably in the
world. Then we have an outlet store in Woodbury Commons, which is up-state, probably many people on this
line know where Woodbury is. We don’t see as much crossover so the customer who is shopping in Americana
Manhasset or Madison Avenue doesn’t necessarily want to trek out to Woodbury Commons, but we do see
some crossover. I think that if you have an appreciation for the brand and Woodbury is an acceptable form, we
do it in a really cool way. We think our outlet, it’s a differentiation for sure. It’s, again, aged merchandise. We
do not make for our outlet. Our outlet, for our brand, it’s important, it’s true leftovers. You may not get your
size, you have to discover it but those customers who have a true appreciation for fashion, folks like to find the
value, everybody does.
That’s why I think we go outlet shopping. For those folks who crossover may love to shop us at Madison
Avenue but take a shopping trip and Woodbury is wonderful because you have all the very best luxury brands
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are represented there. You might discover some items and if you happen to find something at a liquidation
price from an older season, I think if you have an appreciation for the brand, you might pick it up. I think that
is a good way to manage your business, as opposed to being in a full-price channel and on sale and having
inconsistencies. I think the brands need to take control of their product and their distribution and definitely
their promotional cadence. It’s very important.
[00:56:05]
Q: What are you tracking in Q4 2021 and into 2022? What do you think will be critical to success in the
coming months or years?
VO: We have, for sure, I think it’s very important to have footsteps on the ground. We’ve been travelling
through all of the various markets where we distribute, which is why I mentioned I noticed some of the tier 1,
the very best brands where there’s opportunity. They’ve actually been making their footprint even larger, so
they’ve been investing, and I find that very interesting, that the Hermes, the Louis Vuitton, the Balenciaga are
either opening up stores or where they have a store in a particular market, they’re getting larger, a larger piece
of real estate. I think that some of these, I mentioned the Houston Galleria, there’s only so much space and if
brands like Vuitton are getting large, that means smaller brands are getting pushed out. There’s not available
space.
I guess the point I’m trying to make is, I think that brands are for sure focusing more than ever on their
directly operated operations, whether it’s their own brick-and-mortar retail stores, or their e-commerce. I
think they’re really taking control over everything we’ve been talking about there. Product that they offer, how
they want to be presented on the floor and the mixture between their most fashionable products and maybe
their image-based products and their commercial products and how the look comes together. I think they do it
the best when they’re taking complete control of their product offering and their distribution. That’s what I’m
looking at. I think we’re in a very unique period, depending upon which centre or which property or which
street, or your e-commerce which is, equally, that’s the point.
The economics of that, I think that we’ve come out of a period and there’s still some time where there are great
economies and landlords have been, I think working fairly. They want to make sure they’re merchandising
their properties appropriately. The reasons why some brands are getting larger is that you can negotiate really
good economics at this moment for your brand. For us, we want to be on the main streets, in the most
important markets with the correct adjacencies. In an instance where we’re not with the right adjacencies, I
think we’re looking at, how can we, even in some instances reduce that distribution and focus solely on where
we believe we belong? That’s what we’re looking at. At the moment, right now, we’re not seeing as much
tourism. We are seeing more people travel and it’s more domestic. We’re trying to maximise our consumer and
provide an offering and a collection to maximise their share out of their wallet with our brand and then
eventually, when folks are more comfortable and people are travelling again, that would be added business. I
think for sure, where we stand and from a directly operated store and e-commerce perspective, this was very
important for us. I think that’s really what some of the very best brands are looking at, is looking at their real
estate portfolio and making sure they’re in the right locations in the right way.
[01:00:15]
NH: We will now end the Interview. Let me close by saying thank you, Vincent, for your time today. We were
able to cover a lot and in much detail, so I appreciate that. Thank you, clients, for joining Third Bridge Forum’s
Interview. If you would like to speak with our specialist in a private call or meeting then please let your
relationship manager know. Have a good one.
VO: Okay. Thank you, Nyree. Thank you, all. Have a good afternoon. Bye now.
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Transcription ends at 01:00:33 of the recorded material
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